tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post2763580390009712979..comments2024-03-18T16:22:10.302-04:00Comments on Urban kchoze: Myths of the oppressed motorist: freeways and tollssimval84http://www.blogger.com/profile/10615053214354191224noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-44883486840662319092014-07-21T16:23:34.086-04:002014-07-21T16:23:34.086-04:00Yeah, I'm not sure if I'd go as far as rem...Yeah, I'm not sure if I'd go as far as removing highways but I'd certainly start tolling some to ensure they remain free flowing and use to proceeds to fund transit. I'm not entirely sure what the rationale is for the Halton-Peel freeway, probably a combination of trying to attract industrial jobs to Brampton and the 407 not being good enough (because it's quite heavily tolled).<br />It’s true there haven’t been too many new shopping centres near the 407, mostly smaller ones that are also accessible from other roads (ex Yonge & Hwy 7).<br />I would say that Toronto's arterial grid is pretty decent, with fewer gaps than Quebec's, although the relatively flat geography unbroken by major rivers helps. Quebec City seems to have a lot of highways for its size.<br />I certainly think a lot of people are sticking to their corner of the GTA, definitely for shopping, and to a certain extend even work. Ontario's Places to Grow plan outlined 16 secondary nodes they want to urbanize significantly, and many suburbs have "tertiary" nodes they planned themselves for urbanization (ex Miliken).<br />The way I’d break it down, in terms of urban core, inner ring suburbs (Scarborough, North York and Etobicoke) and outer ring suburbs in terms of potential for office development:<br />Downtown: <br />-Transit and pedestrian oriented and high density<br />-Good accessibility by transit<br />-High commercial taxes<br />-Working class to wealthy residents and gentrifying and significant population growth<br />Inner ring suburbs:<br />-Auto oriented and mixed (overall medium) density<br />-Moderate quality of transit (frequent but often slow and delayed, bunching issues, etc)<br />-High commercial taxes<br />-Working class to middle class residents, often getting poorer, moderate population growth<br />Outer ring suburbs:<br />-Auto oriented and relatively low density<br />-Poor transit accessibility<br />-Low commercial taxes<br />-Lower middle class to upper middle class, some areas getting poorer, some areas getting wealthier, rapid population growth<br /><br />So areas outside downtown have obstacles to overcome. North York Centre might have the most potential, although it needs infrastructure (transit and roads) to be upgraded as they are pretty much at capacity.<br /><br />The recent (last 15 yrs) suburban office development has largely been around 404&407 in Markham, Orbitor & Matheson in Mississauga and Mississauga Rd & 401, plus some along the QEW in Oakville and Burlington. Classic auto oriented office parks in other words. In the last 5 years, much of the office development has shifted towards downtown. I guess you can try to be optimistic about the suburbs though, there have been a couple smaller proposals near the Oakville GO station, Markham Centre (near Enterprise Blvd) and Vaughan Centre at the terminus of the Spadina subway extension (Jane & Hwy 7) and North York Centre.<br />NickDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07006815196885883516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-29453258654907745252014-07-21T00:55:54.592-04:002014-07-21T00:55:54.592-04:00I can't speak too much about Ontario's hig...I can't speak too much about Ontario's highways for not being familiar with them. From a cursory look, I'd say only the 401, 403 and 400 seem to be justified for economic imperatives, but they would have to be heavily tolled to discourage commuter use. The point is that most bypass highways tend to be built because commuters have congested older through highways, and tolls could get people to instead opt for alternatives. This could avoid having to build bypass highways.<br /><br />I would be curious to know if shopping malls are sprouting up around the 407. In the case of most highways, it's only a matter of time before developers target interchanges and exits to build malls, as these malls can attract people from very far, but as the 407 is tolled, maybe it makes the highway undesirable for commercial developments.<br /><br />For commuting, highways are not all that useful, a grid of arterial streets can offer much more capacity, so even if they are much slower than free-flowing highways, they can carry more people per hour. One of the main problems we see in Québec is that cities tend to treat provincial roads and highways as little more than car sewers, they omit arterial streets in their plans and channel all their streets on provincial roads, knowing that the cost to maintain and upgrade those roads will be shouldered mainly if not entirely by the transport ministry. This is terrible for pedestrians and cyclists who see numerous detours on trips because cities won't build grids so as not to have to maintain streets with heavy traffic. That's a free rider problem if there ever was one. I don't know if you have the same problem in Ontario.<br /><br />One of the problems I see with Toronto is that the downtown area is on the shore of Lake Ontario, which means that Toronto can only grow to the North, not to the South. Ideally, I think Toronto should strive to extend the downtown north. Also, Toronto is at the size at which starting to grow secondary downtowns is quite necessary. It is naive to believe that one can concentrate offices, stores and cultural activities in one downtown when a metropolitan area grows above 2 or 3 million people. That would mean that, for instance, people who work in Scarborough would live in Scarborough, and have stores and activities in a Scarborough downtown area. This was already attempted somewhat with the Scarborough "city center", but the city center they have built is quite car-centric and seems mostly single-use, instead of mixing offices, shops and housing, offices are in one corner, stores are located in one gigantic mall isolated with an enormous parking lot and high-rise condos are set in their own corner. simval84https://www.blogger.com/profile/10615053214354191224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-27182312572165334472014-07-20T10:53:08.914-04:002014-07-20T10:53:08.914-04:00What are your thoughts on Ontario's highway ne...What are your thoughts on Ontario's highway network? Much of the highways were originally intended to go around and between cities. The QEW, 400, 401, 402, 403, 427, Conestoga, Lincoln M Alexander, 405, 406, 115, Hanlon, EC Row, freeway parts of 11 and 17, 416 and sort 417 (connects cities but goes through rather than around Ottawa) apply. However, many of these, especially in the Toronto area, but to a lesser degree K-W and Hamilton later got surrounded by sprawl.<br /><br />The freeways that were intended to go through cities are basically just Allen Rd, Black Creek Dr and Gardiner-DVP. The Gardiner when built would have connected downtown industries to the freeway network, although it was also intended to be a commuter freeway. It doesn't really go through the city though, since it's on the waterfront. It was originally meant to be tolled but those plans were scrapped (probably in part due to objections from Ontario). Now that the downtown industries are mostly gone, it's mainly a commuter highway.<br /><br />You also have 427 north of the 401, 404 and 410 which were arguably intended mainly to serve suburbs although they were I think mostly built after the suburbs rather than before.<br /><br />As the sprawl caused congestion, the Ontario government decided to build bypasses to these highways, the 403 and 407 as well as massively expanding the 401 and 427. There are now plans for additional bypasses like the Mid-Peninsula and Halton-Peel freeways, plus 407 extensions to the 401 in Durham Region.<br /><br />Do you think the problem was to allow Toronto to sprawl so much? The area inside the 401/427 is about 375 km2. The current density of this area is about 5000 people /km2, but even at a density of 10,000/km2 that would be 3.75 million, which means you'd still have about 2 million people living in the GTA outside this area.<br /><br />Or do you think the 401, 427 and QEW should just have been tolled. If toll revenues were sufficiently high to fund it, would it have been reasonable to use the funds for 401/427/QEW widenings or new bypass freeways?NickDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07006815196885883516noreply@blogger.com