tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post3398273651066461071..comments2024-03-18T16:22:10.302-04:00Comments on Urban kchoze: A catalog of density (Québec/Canada version)simval84http://www.blogger.com/profile/10615053214354191224noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-48632920067124692232020-12-29T16:01:01.875-05:002020-12-29T16:01:01.875-05:00There's also clearly significant variance arou...There's also clearly significant variance around the world in how much living space (and total built urban space!) people use on average, which the resulting densities depend on directly.Edward Swernofskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14329965193571657269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-30499379405119735372020-12-29T15:57:41.364-05:002020-12-29T15:57:41.364-05:00> I tend to consider that local walkability is ...> I tend to consider that local walkability is highly dependent on access to a modern supermarket<br />> Around here, people also suppose that the minimum density to support high-frequency transit is about 35 dwelling units per hectare<br />I don't think either of these are true, though. There are much smaller stores that satisfy most needs. A 10 min walkshed on a grid is more like 1.3 km^2. I'm very curious what off-peak 10 min frequency 1-car automated two-way local train service along a line requires in terms of *walkshed population generally opting to travel w/ trains*. My intuition is that it's closer to 2-4k. Walkability is more than just whether you can access an existing median of retail space or median rideshare mass transit. It's also things like a mixed use grid, slower cars, fewer lanes, more trees, etc. There's a distribution of people willing to walk some distance to each amenity, and they may be willing to walk a little further if things are nicer. Older folks walk much shorter distances, but designing to have everything a 5 min walk from every location would be shortsighted. I've been treating rules of thumb like this more like laws, but I think a host of changes can in fact move the threshold in many cases. For a while I imagined schools for students aged 4-11 would be the bottleneck for walkability, but how does that change with bikes, etc? And what happens when you relax walkability and design for bikeability?Edward Swernofskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14329965193571657269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-34367230552637147822019-12-16T11:05:09.315-05:002019-12-16T11:05:09.315-05:00I feel I've covered pretty much all I feel con...I feel I've covered pretty much all I feel confident covering on this subject in the following posts: <br /><br />https://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/06/buses-mediocrity-dlemma-why-buses-cant.html<br /><br />https://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-quality-bus.html<br /><br />Is there anything you feel I should have covered on the subject that I didn't already?simval84https://www.blogger.com/profile/10615053214354191224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-88630040149999517932019-11-21T00:17:16.292-05:002019-11-21T00:17:16.292-05:00Can you make a new pot regarding transit stop spac...Can you make a new pot regarding transit stop spacing, average speed, and acceleration?fredinnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17753508368520026406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-40601374612500652682019-02-23T04:37:04.222-05:002019-02-23T04:37:04.222-05:00It's been 2 years almost since this post... Wh...It's been 2 years almost since this post... Where have you been Simval? We miss your postsAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739759837687064206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-28520543634850010102018-11-23T03:36:39.095-05:002018-11-23T03:36:39.095-05:00Nice catalog and well done overall. However, your ... Nice catalog and well done overall. However, your example for European-style blocs isnt quite right. They write about it in a similar way on the portal <a href="http://chcemy-wiedziec.pl/" rel="nofollow">Chcemy Wiedzieć</a>.Jantarshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10896338546036404789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-61214311262128768932018-09-04T10:22:05.619-04:002018-09-04T10:22:05.619-04:00The issue of doing such a catalog of commercial de...The issue of doing such a catalog of commercial density would be the difficulty to find an objective metric for it. I guess FAR (Floor-Area-Ratio) would be the one quantitative metric for commercial density, but getting that data would be quite hard, and would be no better than eyeballing the building coverage ratio and then multiplying by number of stories.simval84https://www.blogger.com/profile/10615053214354191224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-22094118294886702162018-07-28T16:27:10.304-04:002018-07-28T16:27:10.304-04:00I have an idea for a new post, how about a catalog...I have an idea for a new post, how about a catalog of density for commercial buildings? Especially since commercial is the most important for density.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739759837687064206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-21319519864038258382018-04-19T02:41:46.536-04:002018-04-19T02:41:46.536-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Imigatihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03964109016611761759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-88207845263420191932018-04-10T18:20:03.466-04:002018-04-10T18:20:03.466-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.dredziastyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08168812276984404084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-1382389975284971602017-07-22T07:08:06.291-04:002017-07-22T07:08:06.291-04:00Most of these new subdivisions in the Toronto area...Most of these new subdivisions in the Toronto area and even nearby areas like Kitchener have relatively large household sizes. The houses are reasonably large and expensive so I suspect people aren't buying them if they don't need to (ie only if they have 2+ kids or a multi-generational household). Even the non-ethnic areas will have household sizes around 3.5. Eventually as kids move out there will be more of a mismatch between household size and the size of household the homes were intended for (some will downsize, but many are emotionally attached to their home), so household sizes will decrease, although older subdivisions of similar sized houses still have 3-3.5 household sizes.<br /><br />Anyways, looks like the densest block in Toronto is the Pinnacle Centre complex, which consists of 4 point towers on Harbour Street in downtown Toronto. Although technically a block of towers in Crescent Town is denser the shape of the block is rather odd and shouldn't count IMO. Otherwise, there are several blocks in downtown Toronto that are more like near Concordia than Vancouver. St James Town is also similarly dense with a more "spaced out" layout of towers - though still closer together and taller than the Montreal brownfield development, as well as having larger units housing families which are generally going to be more space efficient with kitchens, living rooms, etc being shared by more people, especially since St James Town is also similar to Parc Ex income wise.<br /><br />There is also a very dense city block in North York that is low rise. Basically imagine the Parc-Ex block but with 4 storey "stacked townhouses" instead, and replacing the space taken up by streets with sidewalk width pathways with only a little bit of private condo maintained yard space and a small square. Parking is all underground. Density is 650 per hectare.<br />https://www.google.ca/maps/place/The+Pinnacle+Centre/@43.7565674,-79.4063818,115a,35y,39.45t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89d4cb2b917f0181:0x43ec84bdb2d98c86!8m2!3d43.6431319!4d-79.376486<br />Surprisingly the 3 storey townhouses next to them with a similar site layout are only 150-200/hectare although perhaps (in addition to 1 less floor) they cater to a wealthier demographic and it seems households aren't much bigger to compensate for the larger dwellings.NickDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07006815196885883516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-502816010126255522017-06-17T13:27:47.530-04:002017-06-17T13:27:47.530-04:00This is excellent. Thank you.This is excellent. Thank you.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09004403615102176000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-26215000394253785302017-05-31T20:38:18.699-04:002017-05-31T20:38:18.699-04:00Mr. Vallee,
This work is excellent. I'm very ...Mr. Vallee,<br /><br />This work is excellent. I'm very interested in it. I'm wondering if I could communicate with you directly. I direct Sightline Institute, a sustainability think tank in Seattle. My email is Alan (at) Sightline (dot) org. You can find our work on urbanism and affordability at sightline (dot) org, if you'd like to preview the work.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09639133199499673790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-88250236050665052822017-04-30T20:05:59.574-04:002017-04-30T20:05:59.574-04:00Thanks for the great work.
I fell into a great wal...Thanks for the great work.<br />I fell into a great walkable area of Portland Oregon. It would be a great place to study if you are looking for a US city to study. It is probably at the low end of walkability density, but it is at the high-end of walkability amenities. Walkability does depend upon many factors beyond density.<br /><br />Portland's mass transit is equally curious. It seems more frequently than not, the right of way is governed by morality: pedestrians first, then bicycles, then public transit, then cars. The only draw back is cars wait for pedestrians at street lights even if the car has the green light, causing all kinds of confusions.<br /><br />Very interesting place for a case study with your valuable transit informed urban views.<br /><br />Keep up the good work.<br />Joe<br /><br />Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06690605320932131151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-2090295851606388702017-03-09T16:12:49.927-05:002017-03-09T16:12:49.927-05:00I agree! (while the presence of large institutiona...I agree! (while the presence of large institutional buildings does influence density, it's a shame that Vieux-Québec lost a lot of its permanent population). <br />I wonder if your examples could be called "architecture de faubourg" or something similar...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11558017899650358027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-31223872511743417022017-03-09T14:02:04.066-05:002017-03-09T14:02:04.066-05:00Thank you for your testimony. People have differen...Thank you for your testimony. People have different tastes, but when I see images of similar neighborhoods, what strikes me most is how every window has some way of preserving privacy from the street with drapes, closed blinders or the like. The back area may be better, but the occupants always seem to batten down the hatches to protect themselves from the street. To the extent that I've dubbed this type of architecture common in France "castle under siege".<br /><br />For example:<br />https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3445271,3.2258258,3a,102.8y,150.76h,90.76t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sTGK93t0pafg-kXdP0L8Ylg!2e0simval84https://www.blogger.com/profile/10615053214354191224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-30678491720882756912017-03-09T13:44:27.117-05:002017-03-09T13:44:27.117-05:00Thank you for your comment.
I did initially want ...Thank you for your comment.<br /><br />I did initially want to get the examples from older areas closer to the Vieux-Québec, but unfortunately the density was weirdly low. When I checked, I found out why, 30 to 50% of units in these areas are not the main residence of the people who own them, whether they are secondary residences or ad hoc hotel rooms (airbnb and the like), I don't know, but it's clear the building density wasn't properly reflecting the population density.<br /><br />I still think the area I showed, despite its more regular streets, fits the description of "European-style": buildings which walls are built on the property line (no setback between sidewalk and the building), narrow street now taken mostly to park cars, buildings built wall-to-wall with no space between them and of varying but relatively low height.<br /><br />Compare and contrast:<br />The area in Québec I illustrated:<br />https://goo.gl/maps/nnV5f7h91yD2<br /><br />A central part of Toulouse:<br />https://goo.gl/maps/ojvgkTXanUD2<br /><br />A street in Marseille:<br />https://goo.gl/maps/fv2HeVpyKMz<br /><br />Versailles:<br />https://goo.gl/maps/6spq6zEvdfk<br /><br />The architecture may differ somewhat, but I think the basic design similarities are plentiful and evident.simval84https://www.blogger.com/profile/10615053214354191224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-2038709421635237562017-03-09T11:40:21.807-05:002017-03-09T11:40:21.807-05:00Nice catalog and well done overall. However, your ...Nice catalog and well done overall. However, your example for European-style blocs isnt quite right. Your photos show late-19th century industrial-era working-class housing (caracterised by very high lot coverage and a more conventional street grid) as found in the St-Roch and St-Sauveur (St-Jean-Baptiste as well) neighborhoods of Québec City. While density and lot coverage can be similar in Vieux-Québec, the typology has a colonial influence and is a result of the initial lack of space in the walled city. <br />Cheers!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11558017899650358027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-28804896743982001402017-03-09T10:09:36.227-05:002017-03-09T10:09:36.227-05:00Approximately the same comment as above, on tradit...Approximately the same comment as above, on traditional European blocks : I have quite a few friends who live in that exact neighbourhood in Québec (although it extends out of Vieux-Québec and into the St-Jean-Baptiste neighbourhood). The green balconies and yards in the back or on top of the buildings can make for great living spaces!<br /><br />Very interesting post, thank you!Catherinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11886584228292410374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4153985804832811048.post-71316279878885771832017-03-08T12:46:51.528-05:002017-03-08T12:46:51.528-05:00About traditional European blocks, you say,
"...About traditional European blocks, you say,<br /><br />"Nice to visit, more debatable how nice to live in considering the proximity of buildings both in front and in back."<br /><br />I lived in TEBs, which cover most of Mexico City, for years and the quality of life is excellent. It's pretty easy to arrange to have windows in each room and most of them face away from the street. Typical density was just over 150.El Gringohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04445984552616680278noreply@blogger.com